to the ukraine would be vetoed by russians on the security council. then you also have nato. again, the defense ministers of all 28 countries were meeting, and there was no solid statement out of there about what they would do if russia moved troops into ukraine. >> thank you so much from the pentagon. thank you, jennifer. we'll bring it back out here. bob, you were getting very worked up. >> my only point about what jennifer said about the nato mibs meeting. nato has no responsibility to the ukraine. the north atlantic treaty was put together to protect the member states. they're not a member state. nato is not involved in this. the u.s. could be involved if they want to. if they want to get involved militarily, i don't think they do. >> don't you think that's what she was talking about? >> no, nato has no right. >> don't you think a goal of putin was to take nato and disarming nuclear defense, that was a major goal of putin, and guess what, he got it. >> one of the reasons putin is doing this is the ukraine has made it clear, at least for the opposi